Solar Panels and Regulators
Solar Panels convert the sun’s rays into electrical power – I think we all know that by now – but what are the if’s and but’s of it all, and the conditions that affect its operation and efficiency. Most of us also want to know how much solar is needed, and this question is covered in the section How Much Solar?
So for now let’s take a closer look at the panels themselves, and then see how that matches up with conditions in Australia.
Voltage and Current of Solar Panels:
Their full name, photo-voltaic cells, tells us that light is converted to electricity, and the efficiency of commercially available panels is currently 15-20%. The sun gives us about 1000 Watts per square metre (W/m2) and this is also part of the Standard Test Conditions (STC) that are used to measure the output of solar panels. Every panel has a label on the back which specifies its output parameters at STC: Maximum Power (Pmax), Open-circuit Voltage (Voc), Voltage at peak-power (Vpk), Current at peak-power (Ipk), and Short-circuit current (Isc). For a 12 Volt panel the open-circuit voltage will be around 22 Volts – or a volt or so either way.
This 1000 W/m2 is of course only true around midday in summer but it gives us a typical figure to work with, and thankfully it’s used consistently throughout the solar industry. So using this typical figure for solar input, for every square metre of panel we should get about 150 to 200 Watts (15-20% efficiency x 1000Watts).
Practicalities and Panels:
If we check this out on a typical 60 Watt panel that measures 770 x 660 mm then we have 0.5082 m2 of area so we’re getting a typical input of about 508 Watts from the sun onto that area. So our efficiency in this case works out at 60Watts/508W = 11.8%. What happened? Why is our efficiency less than expected? Where did that power go? Well it’s more a case that we failed to capture the full amount of solar available. Have a careful look at a typical panel and you’ll see plenty of white space and wires, they are an essential part of the panel but it’s also space not covered by solar cells, so the efficiency we can actually achieve is less. So if we adjust for real-world factors then it’s close enough to give us some confidence in our solar panel, so that’s the good part.
Mono and Poly – over to you
And while we’re on theoretical versus practical, I am not going to get into the monocrystalline vs polycrystalline debate – if you really want to, there are 100s of articles and opinion pieces on this, and also some excellent scientific papers. For the average camper the differences are a few percent, and make very little practical difference at all. But maybe a good topic for discussions around a campfire…
Solar Panels and Temperature
Something however that does make a difference, especially to us in Australia, is temperature. The panel voltage drops about 0.4% per °C and the power by about 0.5% per °C. The STC we mentioned before measures the panel output at 25°C and any increase above that is going to drop the voltage and power output of our panel. This is important for a number of reasons.
In summer 40°C is not uncommon at all, and in the outback that might be a nice average summer’s day (hello Marble Bar!). For our solar panel this can mean about 65°C on its surface, maybe more – if you have a pyrometer, you can measure it, just don’t touch it! At 65°C this is a 40°C increase in temperature above STC (25°C), so our power will drop by 20% (0.5% x 40°C) and our panel voltage by 16% (0.4% x 40°C). This obviously means a decrease in charging current to the batteries but there is another effect that has important practical implications.
PWM and MPPT:
Every solar panel needs a regulator, to make sure we don’t overcharge the battery when it’s full, and to give it everything the solar has got when the battery is low. You will probably have heard of the two types – PWM and MPPT – pulse-width modulation or maximum power-point tracking. Now this might get a bit technical, but hang in there, we’ll take it slowly, and the results are important.
The Differences
Let’s take the PWM first. When the battery voltage is low it needs maximum charging, so the PWM basically connects the panel straight to the battery and gives it everything the panel’s got. In doing so the battery pulls the solar panel down to its voltage, let’s take a typical 12.5 Volts for the battery voltage.
The diagram shows a typical IV-curve for a 60W solar panel which plots the behaviour of its voltage (horizontal axis) and current (vertical axis left). The blue line also shows Power output in Watts (vertical axis right).
Now let’s see where that PWM regulator has placed us on the curve. If we draw a line straight up from 12.5 Volts (dotted red line) then it cuts the IV line (black) where the red dot is. To know what current this corresponds to, we draw a line across to the current axis and we have a current not far off the short-circuit current (Isc), just under 3.8 Amps.
Ok, now what would the MPPT do in the same situation? The blue line shows the power available from the panel and the MPPT will look for the maximum power point. This is pretty easy to spot as it’s the highest point on the blue line (power). At this point the panel will operate at its peak-power voltage and its peak-power current, for this panel the figures are Vp=17.273V and Ip=3.510A. The MPPT technology is able to down-convert the higher panel voltage to the battery voltage (in this case 12.5V), and in so doing it also boosts the current. So for a 100% efficient MPPT the current would be (17.273V/12.5V) x 3.510 Amps = 4.85 Amps which looks like a nice gain over the PWM’s current of 3.8Amps – right?
Well maybe, maybe not.
Factor in the Temperature:
Remember that stuff about the temperature? In summer that panel’s peak voltage will be 16% less, which brings it down to (17.273V x 84%) = 14.51 Volts. Then there’s the regulator efficiency – most are around 90-96% at their best, so let’s be generous and say 93% efficient on average. So if we factor that all in, we have (14.51V/12.5V) x 3.510 Amps x 93% eff = 3.79 Amps. So we’ve paid a price-premium for the MPPT but it’s giving us virtually the same current as the less expensive PWM in our Australian summer conditions!
For the PWM its output current is not affected by a drop in panel voltage – it’s still well above our battery voltage of 12.5V. The shape of the IV curve simply changes a bit and its operating point stays pretty much the same.
So that’s why MPPTs make more sense in Europe and North America where it’s cold, because the panel voltages are higher. Here in Australia rather stick with a good PWM – some of the best ones are Australian made too.
Higher Voltage Panels
Now if you have a panel with an open-circuit voltage (Voc) higher than about 22 Volts, then you don’t have a 12 Volt panel. So if you want to charge a 12 Volt battery, there is little choice but to go with the more expensive MPPT option. The MPPT will then down-convert the voltage to suit your 12 Volt system and boost your charging current accordingly. Just check that the regulator can handle the open-circuit voltage of your panel – you’ll find that in the regulator’s specifications as Input Voltage.
Higher Battery Voltages:
Also, if your system has higher battery voltages, say 24V or 48V then a good MPPT might well make sense, because the difference between battery and panel voltages is greater, and the MPPT can turn that voltage difference into more current for your batteries. And I must stress that it needs to be a good MPPT regulator. Fortunately most of the good forums & blogs have now wised up to cheap eBay regulators that claim to be an MPPT but when you open them up there’s just a simple PWM circuit inside – and a bad one at that! Rather just stick with well-known and tried-and-tested brands.
Bargain?
While we’re on that topic, if you’re looking at buying a solar panel that seems “too good to be true” then the simple calculation of efficiency that we did before should give you a rough guide. Calculate the area of the panel (in m2) and then divide its wattage by this area to see if you’re in the ballpark of 15 – 20% efficiency, or a bit less after adjusting for the practical factors we described before. If not, then that panel is claiming it does more than we can do with real-world science and physics, and you’re probably paying for something you’re not getting…
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33 Comments
Hi Alistair, awesome content. Took about a dozen screenshots for reference as I set up a 12v off grid set up in my new rental house (no current power in garage and the challenge of getting a 12v setup is way more fun than just working out a 240 solution).
I have two panels, different brands that I’m planning to wire up in parallel to combine the amps going to my pwm controller. One panel reads 20.7v (the claimed 250w one) and the other 23.1v (the claimed 200w one) when I use a multimeter and panels are just in sun disconnected from anything else. Are these both 12v panels? And can I just wire them together in parallel? Or should I buy another pwm controller and run each panel through its own controller? Can that actually be done or do the pwm’s just fight each other and turn off constantly?
Thanks!!!
Hi Anthony,
Thanks for the kind words – glad you’re finding the 12Volt Blog useful!
And love the attitude – way more fun to set up a 12Volt system than getting 240V to the garage!
First off, those open-circuit voltages both look like 12Volt panels should – but the 2.4V difference could be a problem if you feed them both into the same pwm – I say “could be” because in theory the difference is not that great, but in a practical setup it might be enough to upset things.
Feeding the panels into separate pwms would definitely be an option, and the two regulators would “play together nicely” too – so the only downside is cost.
Would be an interesting experiment (seeing you’re into having fun) to compare the two setups and see which one gives you the biggest total current – my guess is there wouldn’t be a huge difference, but it all depends on how the practical setup will deal with the different panel voltages.
Hope this helps – have fun!
Cheers,
Alistair
Hi Alistair, I know this is an older blog but I try anyway.
I have learned lots in your article and have now only one question about a blocking diode.
I’m running a big installed panel and a smaller portable panel 12V parallel into 1 PWM charger. Because of different size / orientation / shading I gave each panel a blocking diode so that the stronger panel doesn’t feed into the weaker one but now I loose the 0.6V through that diode. Do I need that blocking diode or would the bypass diode in each panel do the same thing without the voltage drop?
Thanks Manfred
Hi Manfred,
Apologies to you for my delayed response – my spam filter went feral and blocked everything – anyway, all good now.
And thanks for the kind comments – fortunately Volts, Amps and Watts don’t change over time so if you understand the stuff on the 12Volt Blog that’ll certainly get you started.
Interesting question you raise – and fortunately the different size of the panels doesn’t matter – they just each contribute their bit to the total, without affecting each other.
The difference in shading is an interesting one – and there is a blog article “Solar Panels: Parallel, Series, Shading & Diodes” on that one, although it gets a bit technical at times. The short answer is that in that case too, the panels “play together nicely” and each one contributes to the total power output.
In both cases, there is no need for a blocking diode – and the bypass diode helps in partial shade too.
Once both panels become dark (total output = zero) then the regulator will prevent the panels from draining current from the battery.
Hope this helps.
Cheers,
Alistair
Hi Alistair,
A very informative read.
I have a van with 3 x 150w panels. feeding 2 x 170a/h Lithium batteries using a Victron 100/30 regulator.
Recently acquired a portable 300w Panel and am wondering if I can incorporate this into the system on a part-time basis? This would give 650w total panels, when connected, and I am thinking I would then need a larger regulator.
Cheers
John
Hi John,
First of all, apologies for the delay in responding – my spam filter got over-enthusiastic & was blocking everything! Anyway, all fixed now.
Hope this response is still useful – and yes, adding a portable panel is a great idea – gives you options of where to park the van, and can put the portable panel in sun, but have the van in the shade – nice!
The Victron’s data sheet says it can handle a max of 35A short-circuit current, and at 650W you’d be over that, so yes, you’d need the 100/50 regulator for that.
Another option, if the van is in the shade, is to switch off one of your 150W panels – depending on how accessible your solar cables are, that might be fiddly – but it’s a low-cost option, and would keep you within the limits of your regulator.
Short answer – you’re absolutely on the right track!
Cheers,
Alistair
Hi Alistair,
Change of plan. Moving the 170ah batteries to my tow vehicle. Consolidating 4 x 140 ah in parallel in the van. Believe I have that right with all main connections being the same length in 2awg. Running all positive and all negative connections to individual bus bars.
The 300W portable panel has similar open circuit voltage to the three 150W permanent panels, so total O/C voltage will be around 90V. According to Victron it’s just within the limits of the 100/30 unit, when everything is hooked up. However charge to batteries would be limited to 30 AH.
This should work, but if necessary I will change the solar controller to a 150/35.
Love the Victron gear with the bluetooth connection to my iphone.
Cheers
John
John wrote:
————-
Hi Alistair,
Change of plan. Moving the 170ah batteries to my tow vehicle. Consolidating 4 x 140 ah in parallel in the van. Believe I have that right with all main connections being the same length in 2awg. Running all positive and all negative connections to individual bus bars.
The 300W portable panel has similar open circuit voltage to the three 150W permanent panels, so total O/C voltage will be around 90V. According to Victron it’s just within the limits of the 100/30 unit, when everything is hooked up. However charge to batteries would be limited to 30 AH.
This should work, but if necessary I will change the solar controller to a 150/35.
Love the Victron gear with the bluetooth connection to my iphone.
Cheers
John
—————————-
Hi John,
Sounds like a plan – and a good one too!
With that much battery storage you’d be able to enjoy free-camping a lot more than most – and you raise a good point about having similar OC voltages on panels feeding into one regulator – they should all be similar (within a volt or three).
The 100/30 will be close to its limit with 90V incoming, but in theory should be ok – if you have a voltmeter maybe check and see what OC voltage you’re getting in full sun and no-load, and how close that is to the nameplate OC voltage.
And yes, being able to see what the regulator is up to, without interrupting the priority of beer-sipping – just magic…
Sound like happy camping ahead!
Cheers,
Alistair
Hi, great blog!
I am setting up a 12V solar system for a new off-road caravan. Planning on having a 150W and a 200W portable panels. I’m planning on connecting both the portable panels in parallel using a single regulator. They have a working max voltage within 0.5V of each other (18V and 18,5V), and the same for the VOC (21.2V & 21.7V). Wondering if shading of one panel could cause issues with the other? Would I be better having a separate solar regulator for both the portable panels (at higher cost)?
Thanks again for all the info!
Hi Greg,
Great question – and glad you’re finding the 12Volt blog useful!
You’ve done the right thing by making sure the panel voltages are similar – all good!
And the question you ask, if shading the one will affect the other, is the exact question that I asked myself – and the short answer is No – they play together nicely!
A longer version of this happy answer is part of the Blog article “Solar Panels: Parallel, Series, Shading & Diodes” – and under the heading “Shading and Multiple Solar Panels” I use an example of two 80W panels in parallel. It also has a really technical section about this, depending how deep you want to dive into it.
So if the shaded panel is giving you 2 Amps, and the sunny one is giving 10Amps, they simply add together, and you get a total of 12Amps – all into the single regulator.
Happy camping!
Cheers, Alistair
Hello Alistair,
Great blog, it has been very helpful.
I am trying to make a decision regarding new solar panels for my camper.
I have the choice between semi-flexible panels bonded to the roof of my camper or rigid panels mounted on pads raised off the roof.
The rigid ones are 2/3 the price of the semi-flexible ones however they are also double the weight.
After reading your description of the effect on temperature on panel output, would another advantage of the rigid panels is air can flow under them so it should keep them cooler and hence slightly more efficient? Or do you think it would make no difference?
Cheers,
Alistair
Hi Alistair (snap!)
First off, my comments below to Kevin about flexible panels might be helpful to you too.
Second – you got the airflow thing in one! – yep, an air-gap under the panels will definitely keep the panels cooler, and make them more efficient. I’ve seen cases of rigid panels glued straight onto the roof, which then blew because of excess heat (and water got trapped underneath as well) – not good!
And of course flexible ones stuck to the roof have no chance of airflow either – some use a layer of corflute between the roof and the flexible panel which is a useful way to get some airflow going.
Short answer – unless the flexible panels have some real advantage in your case (e.g. curved surface) then the best is to just go with rigid panels.
Hope this helps.
Cheers,
Alistair
I’ve been advised that I need no less than 650 watts of solar panels. By my extremely amateur calculations that would require a 60amp controller.
Locally I can source 30amp units for about $200 each but 60amps & above see the price rise to $1000 & over. My question is, can I run two systems of say 360watts & feed the current into a single bank of 12V batteries? Thanks.
Hi Kevin,
This is an interesting one – and the short answer is Yes! – you certainly can split up the system into 2x 30 Amps (and your conversion from 650W to a regulator of 60A at 12V is spot-on too!)
That said, some questions & comments:
– 650W is quite a bit for a 12V system, are you sure you want to stick with 12V? (if you go to 24V the total regulator current drops to 30A)
– Battery size: to absorb 650W into 12V batteries you’ll need at least 300Amp-hours, and the largest 12V battery I’ve seen is 250Ah. This means paralleling batteries, which can be done, but is not ideal. A better option is going for two high-capacity 6V batteries in series. Price would probably also factor into this choice.
Hope this makes sense, if not, let’s keep chatting.
Cheers,
Alistair
First, thanks for taking the time to respond. I hadn’t considered creating a 24v system but it’s a logical solution to some of the problems. This solar system is destined for a trailer-able pontoon houseboat/caravan I’m currently building. Weight is important but more so is balance which dictates the use of two batteries 2400mm apart & situated amidships. I’ve dialled back the generation requirements a little in light of your comment re power absorption & will rely on a petrol generator as backup if required. A couple more queries:
What is your opinion of lead carbon batteries in particular linked in series for the 24V option? I can source 130 ah units at a reasonable price.
As weight matters I intend to use flexible panels. Is this likely to cause any problems?
from Kevin:
First, thanks for taking the time to respond. I hadn’t considered creating a 24v system but it’s a logical solution to some of the problems. This solar system is destined for a trailer-able pontoon houseboat/caravan I’m currently building. Weight is important but more so is balance which dictates the use of two batteries 2400mm apart & situated amidships. I’ve dialled back the generation requirements a little in light of your comment re power absorption & will rely on a petrol generator as backup if required. A couple more queries:
What is your opinion of lead carbon batteries in particular linked in series for the 24V option? I can source 130 ah units at a reasonable price.
As weight matters I intend to use flexible panels. Is this likely to cause any problems?
—————————————————————
Hi Kevin,
Placing the batteries amidships is a good idea for stability – having them 2.4m apart though needs some care – the solution is basically using heavy cable – try aiming for under 0.1V drop at full current (there’s a volt-drop calculator on the 12Volt blog).
I’m afraid I don’t have any experience of lead-carbon batteries but a quick online search brings up some stocked by reputable retailers, so seems like they’re out there – as with anything 12Volt it helps to do your homework before laying out cash.
Flexible panels are a great way to save on weight – makes perfect sense too if that weight is up at head-height.
Two things about flexible panels – they can be expensive, and some are really bad quality, so you have to be careful. If the brochure saying anything like “for single panel use only” or “do not connect in parallel or series” then stay well away – and the price will probably be heavily discounted too.
The good ones use SunPower modules – have a look at EcoBoats Australia – their website is a good start with two brands available – stay with those brands and you’ll be ok.
Sounds like a fascinating project you have Kevin – best of luck!
Cheers,
Alistair
from Kevin:
First, thanks for taking the time to respond. I hadn’t considered creating a 24v system but it’s a logical solution to some of the problems. This solar system is destined for a trailer-able pontoon houseboat/caravan I’m currently building. Weight is important but more so is balance which dictates the use of two batteries 2400mm apart & situated amidships. I’ve dialled back the generation requirements a little in light of your comment re power absorption & will rely on a petrol generator as backup if required. A couple more queries:
What is your opinion of lead carbon batteries in particular linked in series for the 24V option? I can source 130 ah units at a reasonable price.
As weight matters I intend to use flexible panels. Is this likely to cause any problems?
—————————————————————
Hi Kevin,
Placing the batteries amidships is a good idea for stability – having them 2.4m apart though needs some care – the solution is basically using heavy cable – try aiming for under 0.1V drop at full current (there’s a volt-drop calculator on the 12Volt blog).
I’m afraid I don’t have any experience of lead-carbon batteries but a quick online search brings up some stocked by reputable retailers, so seems like they’re out there – as with anything 12Volt it helps to do your homework before laying out cash.
Flexible panels are a great way to save on weight – makes perfect sense too if that weight is up at head-height.
Two things about flexible panels – they can be expensive, and some are really bad quality, so you have to be careful. If the brochure says anything like “for single panel use only” or “do not connect in parallel or series” then stay well away – and the price will probably be heavily discounted too.
The good ones use SunPower modules – have a look at EcoBoats Australia – their website is a good start with two brands available – stay with those brands and you’ll be ok.
Sounds like a fascinating project you have Kevin – best of luck!
Cheers,
Alistair
Such interesting reading for the layman,
I’ve taken notes on may things, but still lost when it comes to choosing a solar panel.
I would obviously go as big as space and money allows. I am leaning towards 250w panel for a little caravan.
The prices can vary from $150 to $800 or more. I know you get what you pay for. But what are the obvious tell tale signs of what you are looking for to get a middle of the road?
In the same note, lithium batteries are the same, a big variation of prices – how to chose?
Thank you again
Andre
Hi André,
Good to know you’re enjoying the 12Volt Blog!
Hmmmm – solar panels can seem so simple but as you say, making a choice can be tricky.
First off, 200 Watts is about as big as 12 Volt panels go, and staying with 12V will allow you to use a less expensive PWM regulator. Going bigger than 200W means a higher voltage, which needs an MPPT regulator (and if the price is under $100, it’s not a real MPPT). So I’d stick with a 12Volt panel.
And then some panels say they are 200W but aren’t actually. To see how “believable” the panel’s specs are, we can check the efficiency (see “Practicalities and Panels” above), and that should be around 15% or so. For instance I found one 12V panel online that says it’s 200W but measures 1620 x 657mm – that’s 1.064 square metres, which means it’s claiming nearly 19% efficiency. Another panel, also 12V 200W is 1580 x 808mm, which is 1.277 square metres, with a claimed efficiency of just over 15%. In this case the second one is much more believable, so you’re most likely getting what you paid for.
Prices do vary quite a bit, so does quality – and that goes for panels as well as batteries. Buying from a retailer means you can take it back if you’re not happy, which also means they’re much less likely to sell dodgy stuff. Buying online is a big risk (unless you’re buying a well-known brand), and I’m aware of a few shady online stores based in Australia as well.
It always helps to ask around too – camping and caravanning forums are great for that – people are always happy to have a yarn about their 12Volt setups!
Cheers,
Alistair
Hello Alistair. Thanks for this site.
I have an off road van and one of its two solar panels was shattered, i think by a rock.
1 – Should I replace both panels in order to have even performance from both panels? I think they are either 100 or 110 watt units, but I am uncertain. I have not removed them from the roof of my van as yet so I don’t have specs on them yet.
2 – What panel(s) should I buy?
My setup is a Morningstar Sunsaver 20L SS-20L-12V controller, which is 12V and can handle 20 amp. My batteries are two 130 AH (real good quality AGM).
Thanks in anticipation. I am in Melbourne.
Hi Las,
Glad you’re finding the 12Volt Blog useful – and yeah, a panel usually comes 2nd in a fight with a rock – bad luck mate.
Anyway, the good news is that you don’t have to replace both panels. Given your regulator is PWM, the panels will be in parallel, so any 12Volt panel can be paired with the one that’s still good. Very nice regulator too, by-the-way, and if your panels are 110 Watt or thereabouts, the regulator has some good spare capacity too. In fact that regulator will happily handle 2 x 150W panels, so if you’re looking to increase the panel size then this might be a good time. Your batteries are also nicely sized, so they’d be able to store some extra solar, plus the fact that Melbourne gets about 20% less than most capital cities in Australia, so increasing your solar is good from a number of angles.
So, losing a panel is not nice, but it might also be an opportunity!
Cheers,
Alistair
Hello Alistair. I’ve just fitted a 160W panel to the top of a caravan. Full sun it was producing 24v and in the shed 17v. Once connected to the PWM regulator with max input 30v I get nothing from the connectors to the battery. Once connected to the battery, I get a reading of 12.6v but am thinking this reading is from the battery as the battery voltage doesn’t change with or without connection to regulator. There is also another set of wires off the regulator for a light and there is no current there either. I’m thinking I have a faulty regulator. Do you think this is an accurate assumption? Cheers, John G…
Hi John,
Good question – and all your measurements makes sense too. An open-circuit voltage of 24V tells me you panel is fine, and a battery voltage of 12.6V means it’s about 80-90% full. In the shed you’ll get just about zero charge, but with full sun around midday you should be getting close to 10Amps from that panel. In this case you should see the battery voltage rise slowly, but you may need to be patient, and it should then rise into the 13s and top out just above 14V, before dropping back to 13.5V or so.
In terms of measuring nothing at the regulator terminals, that doesn’t actually mean the regulator is dead – it only wakes up and starts charging once it sees a battery, so that’s quite normal. The kicker will be if you sit looking at it for an hour, in full sun, and the voltage hasn’t moved – then it’s time for a new one!
Hope this helps.
Cheers,
Alistair
Hi Alistair,
Thanks for a good series of articles.
I’ve noticed the advertising is now using “German panels = 25% efficiency” however reputable companies are more conservative at around 16% efficiency. The best panels in 2020 are around 22.5% so perhaps a good guide to your readers is 25% = bulls$$t. I have two panels for camping and both perform at around 15% x area of panel.
With just a fridge, lights and electric blanket and 280Ah of battery I can go off grid for 5 days without sunlight (solar panel failed) and indefinitely with a 160Watt panel. The biggest challenge has always been a shady campsite and the 30metres of cable to the open sunny spot for the panel.
Thanks again, Phil
Hi Phil,
Glad you’re finding the blog articles useful – that’s what it’s all about!
I looked for this marketing claim of 25% for German panels and came across a claim of “25% better” efficiency. When I looked at the actual brochure, that claim seemed to be based on what they call an “energy boost” that would somehow increase the output by up to 25% under “optimized conditions”. But they don’t explain what those conditions are, or how you or I could achieve them.
Interestingly, the brochure also measures the efficiency under STC as 16.7% – so on a level playing field (= real-world measurements) the results are suddenly believable – amazing!
(;-)
Thanks for a great question.
Cheers,
Alistair
Thank you Alistair, can you recommend a good MPPT Regulator ? There is so many on the market and some claim to be MPPT when they are not. Again, thanks for the advice,, very helpful,, Cheers Norm.
Hi Norm,
I normally shy away from promoting specific brands on the 12Volt Blog but I can happily recommend Morningstar – the downside is they are really expensive in Australia. As a good second, Victron do a range of MPPTs with solid specs. Some of them have bluetooth which allows you to see what the regulator is up to on your phone – personally I like that, but each one to his own. To handle the Voc of your panel, the 75/15 model is just fine – it can handle up to 75V input which is a nice safety margin, and it’s capable of 15Amps output which should allow you to use all of the 190W from your panel. I came across a few places online that carry Victron in stock, so it should be readily available in Australia.
Hope this helps mate – happy camping!
Cheers,
Alistair
G’day mate, I’m new here. I have a old N.E.S.L. Panel190 watts, open circuit voltage is 46.2 volts. Puts out about 5 amps,, I think. What can I do with it to make it useful for camping, (Charging 12 volt) ?
Hi there Norman,
Yep, 5 Amps looks about right for this panel. Unfortunately it’s a 24Volt panel, so using it to charge a 12Volt battery is not ideal, but it can be done! There are two ways to go here.
One way is use an MPPT regulator to bring the voltage down to 12Volt, but a good MPPT is over $100, so that might hurt a bit. The good news though, is that it’ll put 10 Amps into your battery (if we halve the voltage, we double the current).
The other way is a bit cheap-and-cheerful – you could use a simple 12V PWM regulator but you’d only get 5 Amps doing that – plus you’d have to check that the regulator could handle the panel’s open-circuit voltage of 46.2Volts.
So, can be done – and you’ve got the panel for free, so maybe the MPPT is the way to go – and 10 Amps is a decent charging current too.
Hope this helps!
Cheers,
Alistair
Thanks Ziggy, for sharing such pertinant info.
I am on a 42′ yacht and struggling in keeping batteries
at 50% in the AM.
I have just added what I thought was a 24 volt Amppair wind generator
however sadly it is a 12Volt 10 amp model.
I am considering a stepup transformer of say 9-20 volts imput and 28 volts output.
The other option is feeding it via a MPPT converter direct to the Batteries $x 250A Calcium.
plus 2 high crank amps start batteries.
Which option is the best? Will the MPPT scavenge from the 12 to 17Volts and step up the voltage with resultant amps loss ? to assist in charging on cloudy/ windy days?
Can Ziggy or anyone assist on feedback ?
Hi Bazz,
Welcome to the 12Volt Blog!
First off – going with a windgen is a savvy addition – it charges at different times to other power sources like solar or the boat’s alternator – so that’s a great start.
Stepping up from 12V to 24V is not going to be easy though – it can be done, but it’s a bit complicated, and expensive.
The first option is a step-up MPPT – like the GSL BMPPT-150 (http://www.gsl.com.au/bmppt150.html) but those are designed for charging 24V batteries from 12V solar panels, so that might not work with a 12V windgen. You’d have to check that with GSL themselves.
The other step-up option is a 12V to 24V battery charger (boost charger) but again, this is designed for charging from a 12V battery, so you’d need to add a 12V battery for the windgen to charge, and then feed this into the boost charger to charge the 24V batteries.
The simplest may well be to swap the 12V windgen for a 24V one. There may be logistical or other implications, but at the end of the day this might be the best option.
So, a windgen is definitely a great addition – stick with that – just depends how easy it is to get your hands on a 24V one.
Hope this helps.
Cheers,
Alistair
A good read. Thanks.
Re PWM vs MPPT… isn’t the latter supposed to be better if there’s a bit of cloud around?
And the temperature effect…. 40 C might be a reasonable assumption for the Northern half of the country in summer but the Southern? In winter where I live and in which I do most of my camping apart from the far North, I’m happy to see 25.
Hi Ziggy,
Glad you enjoyed reading the Blog, and your questions are both spot-on.
First, if there’s cloud around then the panels will be cooler and the panel voltages higher, so the MPPT will be able to convert this into more current at 12Volt. Also, according to the guys at the Solar Centre in Alice Springs (DKASC), in cloudy weather we get a “scatter effect” on the sun’s rays that can increase the panel’s output. So yes, the MPPT will give us more output in cloudy conditions than a PWM.
And second, if you’re in a region where 25 deg is the high side of temperatures, then again, the panel voltages will be higher and the MPPT can turn this into more current for our batteries.
I guess the upshot is that an MPPT will seldom perform worse than a PWM regulator. But I have a scottish surname, so cost tends be high on the list for me, and that’s where the PWM wins. And the money saved by getting a PWM instead, can be spent on extra solar which more than makes up for the gains of an MPPT.
But if you’ve already invested in a good MPPT – no problem at all! – it will always maximise the battery charging current.
Cheers,
Alistair